It seemed Jupe's her basic message was this: no matter what crappy stuff life presents you with, you can't wallow in it forever. Move beyond victimhood.

And that much, I agree with, so I didn't find a great deal to comment on in her posts.

I'm glad she feels no damage from or sadness in her adoption experience, and wish more people felt that way. However, just because she's fine with the effect of adoption on her life does not negate the plenty of people who are not fine with theirs. Their voices are legitimate, too. I like to hear from everybody!

Re Jupe and via Heather: And that much, I agree with, so I didn't find a great deal to comment on in her posts.

Ditto.

I'm just not understanding this:

It appears that unless an unattributed diatribe can happen, and often in a vacuum, communication that may be a bit uncomfortable between triad members ... aside from the adoptive parent punching bags ... may be forever limited to 'no comment'.

I'm not seeing where adoptive parents are punching bags. I'm not seeing this lack of communication that you're talking about. Perhaps you need to seek out better blogs/lists to read. :)

I've been a punching bag, repeatedly, and no one seems to care. I move on. (Or try.)

Just not getting this series of posts at all. Sorry./

Hey, this old bag has been punched plenty.

Jenna, I think quite a few people care that you have felt punched, we are just waiting for you to fully notice.

The just of the series(my opinion) is that Sandra is doubled over after the right smart kick from that article, had me wincing too.

Ok, That said I am ready for my next punching :(

I blogged about one post of Jupe's and she feel attacked, so I did not continue on. Smart people pick their battles, and I am learning to do that. Debating with Jupe did not seem that it would be productive to me.

Plus, I am still smarting from feeling jumped all over myself by several people, including you. I need to feel strong and ready to debate - not feeling it now.

Jan,

If it's my comment below on your post about Chinese adoption that has you feeling, "jumped all over", you are making my point, I'm afraid.

Asking for attribution for statements like you "quote" is only fair.

This is a perfect example of a blanket statement put out as fact that is nothing more than opinion, assumption and speculation.

The fact that you clammed up after my comment led me to believe that this was simply a case of pulling out the same old punching bag.

If you pick a battle, be ready to defend it. Otherwise, it's just a drive-by.

"'I wonder about some of the outraged adoptive parents who sound so appalled that anyone would question their "right" to adopt no matter what their age, financial situation or anything else.'

I'd like you to attribute this statement ... your opening premise ... as I'm all over the Internet on international adoption issues and haven't seen anything that sounds even remotely like this from adoptive parents. Do you have direct quotes?

If anyone made such broad and insulting statements about birth parents, you'd be hitting the roof.

Your bias, and your lack of information is showing."

I wrote a post, expressed my opinions and was not aiming for a battle. I have never claimed to be an expert on International adoption. All of us write about subjects that are out of our realm of expertise at times - you included. I need quotes? Really?

I clammed up because I did not feel like fighting with you - I still don't.

And, thanks for repeating your insults publicly - again! You missed the best part though, accusing me of "insulting adoptive parents with bigoted and groundless statements."

In case anyone is tuning in thinking there's about to be some slappin' goin' on, Jan and I have taken our discussion private.

We have worked through some profound differences in POV in the past, and can do it again.

Ya know, I never could just eavesdrop when my parents were talking about me ... just couldn't keep my mouth shut. Since this debate is missing my particular leg of the three-legged pot, I feel the need to clarify a couple of points:

To Heather/Jenna: Am glad you agree that clinging to victimization isn't the healthiest approach to life ... but the other main point of my series was that while yes, there are adoptees that have had a hard time adjusting to life in one way or another (I agree, that is 'legitimate')and that some of those difficulties may have arose from adoption-related 'topics,' they are not the MAJORITY, as is often portrayed on the internet. I went to great pains to find out the facts, to research the statistics and to make sure that the statements I made throughout the "Issues and Issues"/"Three Legged Pot" series were substantiated and valid... and then I analyzed my little heart out.

I had a go at every leg of the pot, as well as the pot as a whole, trying to provide a perspective that, I had hoped, would be a comfort to BOTH adoptive and birth parents... an apparently impossible task.

Anyway, that's more than enough recap...

I was glad to know that both of you are reading... thanks for that... and even if you agree, it's nice to hear from you... maybe ESPECIALLY if you agree...

Jan: Apparently, no matter what I say, you will believe what you want to believe, but again, for the last time, I will attempt to make myself completely clear.

The reason I felt attacked is that in your response blog, you didn't give an opinion (substantiated, atrributed or not) nor did you really disagree with me. You didn't just misquote or paraphrase my blogs. You actually attempted to second guess my FEELINGS, even after I had recently published thousands of words telling the world (including you) EXACTLY how I feel about everything adoption and my life as an adoptee.

There was nothing constructive or journalistically valuable about "maybe she feels this... maybe she feels that" and then attributing potential emotions that are very clearly NOT how I feel... but MAYBE are how YOU think I should feel. It seemed as though you were trying in some way to have the final word or even to call into question the honesty/integrity with which I present my own emotions and therefore, the validity of those emotions.

Of course I was offended.

I have seen your normally sensitive stance toward angry/frustrated adoptees and tormented birth mothers, but your "response" blog was far from that... or is it easier to be sensitive to unhappy people than happy people? I don't know and it no longer matters.

I hope you can understand this:

I did not feel attacked by your differing opions of the topic. In your blog, you did not even confront any of my points. I was insulted by your presumptuousness, and it wasn't the first time... I had just let it go on the other occasions.

I did not make any responses to your subsequent comments on my blogs because, like you say, it didn't seem worth my while. With each comment it became apparent that you need to think exactly how you think without questioning it... and that's fine. You are entitled.

If I followed your lead, I could offer what I think you REALLY feel and why... I could psycho-anlayze you until the cows come home... but that is not my style. Your life is yours.

I will debate opinions based on fact... (though I would rather share opinions rather than everything having to be perpetually confrontational.) I will not debate opinions based purely on emotion as they are really un-debatable. A person feels how they feel.

I just wish, Jan, you could turn off the high-power defensive fence you have charged around your status as birth mom, to read what I have really written. I do not attack birth moms. I respect birth moms. I question EVERYTHING. That is my role in this life.

I don't know why you are not feeling strong, but I hope you feel strong again soon ... not for debate, but just to enjoy life.

Sandra: Sorry I highjacked your comment bin... But at least there is one for you in all my hubbabaloo...

The problems with the 'news'and (journalism in general) today is that it is very often posed as 'news' but is really based on unsubstantiated, unattributed rumor. The internet is great because everyone can express their opinions, but to me, it is also a bit dangerous because we the people are trusting louts and seem to feel that if someone writes something, it must be 'true.'

I have learned to assume, that just about everything I read is fiction (at my most cynical) or a piece for an op/ed page rather than fodder for the fact file... makes everything much less offensive because it just doesn't matter what people think...

TO BM's AND AM's in general... as one of your 'kids' in the middle... can't we all just get along? There is far too much 'punchbagging' going on in these here parts. It's worrying.

sigh...

As I read and reread these blogs, I switch over to websites of parents searching for their child's birth parent in foreign countries, so they can have contact with them. Some parents of Guatemalan born children, are helping the BM's financially and helping to pay for schooling of the children left in Guatemala.

Whether you agree with this or not, for the most part in my little world (Guatemalan adoptions), the parents want to meet the BM's and have contact with them, send them updates, and let them see the adopted child as much as it is possible.

Lisa S.